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Post  swiftkid 12/11/10, 10:53 am

I thought i'd move my topic in the for sale section over to the technical section. Right, basically as per the advice i have been given im going to go bike carbs on my swift gti. I've been having a look and reading threads on all the swift forums about whats needed but I have a few questions I would be most grateful for assistance.

Basically what carbs can i use? I've been offered a set of cbr600 carbs but someone told me they wouldn't be suitable, i've been told the ones to go for are early R1 carbs that fetch a price or GSXR600. Now I've said i'm not interested in figures, just usable power but i would like to make the most of the setup so if R1's are going to get me the most power i'll just have to pay the price.

As i need a manifold, i need to decide if im going to take a trip to bogg brothers (15 minute drive from me Very Happy) for a manifold or make one myself. I have been told the length of the runners and the angle of the carbs are an issue, can anyone confirm this?

Last question, as i have a mk1 engine that i have never heard running, i was going to get it running on carb setup then look at swapping the head for the mk2. I would imagine the inlet ports and bolt positions would be the same on both heads but can anyone confirm this before i go get manifolds made up.

Thanks in advance, Dave

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Post  STEVEGTI 12/11/10, 02:27 pm

ok first of all carms are a waste of time going backwards if ya ask me but here we go anyway.


defo r1 carbs or gsxr 1000 basically get em off a 1000cc bike minimum id say

shorter runners on the inlet will favour a higher reving engine longer curvey ones will me a lil better low down


yes mk1 inlet positions are the same although the heads are not mk2 head flows better slighley larger ports. however theres a water jacket on the side of the inlet flange on mk1 head thats filled in on the mk2 head

contact dominator [gary] or atchi [miniswift] about a manifold they can get some flanges can


steve


p.s save your money and turbo it Very Happy

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Post  swiftkid 12/11/10, 02:45 pm

Why do you say its a waste of time putting it on carbs? I thought you could get more power out of it if you run it on carbs. Another reason I want to run it on carbs is because I have a mk1 engine with a vacuum advance apparently. It's going in a mk4 so for pure ease would make ly life a lot easier!

Oh and as for turbo, I won't be going down that route. It's supposed to be a cheap bit of fun, my vr6 is the one I will be tuning if anything.

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Post  dominator 12/11/10, 06:23 pm

dont listen to steve, he`s just a turbo addict Razz
all bolt possitions will be the same
bogg`s are good but very expencive,if you know a fabricator then go see him
you can always do a cheapo cowboy job and cutt an old gti inlet and use some fuel resistant hoses to join the carbs, the airflow isnt exactly perfect but you get what you pay for i guess
as for the type of carbs, like steve said the bigger the bike the better
i think 600 carbs are still 40 odd mm but the 1000cc- set will have more scope for extra fueling etc
the float bowls will have to be level, the gti engine leans over at 15deg to the front of the car
heres a side pic of my carb set i made
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11473969@N02/4570388375/

gary

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Post  STEVEGTI 12/11/10, 06:34 pm

lool yep love da boost carbs is alot of work time and money to get 150bhp [flywheel] maybe and you defo need cams/portwork for that for that aswell Cool

with carbs you also want a low pressure fuel pump and fpr

and to get the best out of them you will need some sort of aftermarket ecu dunno if they do ignition only ecus ???


tune a vr6 Mad nooooo unles its in a mk1 golf then it aint going nowere fast my mates got a 2.9 vr in a mk1 and it aint nothing to write home about Evil or Very Mad far too heavy a engine 1.8t much better or R32 basically same lump but 320bhp n/a now thats a start.

steve afro

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Post  Miniswift 12/11/10, 06:53 pm

Hi,

NA is expensive way to mod for higher out put....
Oh well, we all live and learn from our play I guess.

R1 carbs are running 75 degrees down drought. If you fit to G13B, engine is 15 degrees so you have to have 60 degrees more with you inlet manifold.

This is one of Ozmidnight setup.
http://www.teamswift.net/gallery/image.php?album_id=561&image_id=1083

His inlet is chopped mk1 Gti inlet manifold.
This is the one with BMW K100 ITBs.
Gti technical advice Picture

Or I can cut you a flange and ask someone nice to make you a inlet manifold!

This is my setup with R1.
Gti technical advice Image

Gti technical advice Image

Good luck!

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Post  STEVEGTI 12/11/10, 07:14 pm

can i also add atchi is building a turbo motor and setup Very Happy becuase he aint silly hahah


steve

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Post  swiftkid 12/11/10, 08:48 pm

Lol, guess your not a fan of the VR6 then steve but there is just no comparison between the 1.8t's and the VR6s! I shan't get into this argument but in my opinion the 1.8t's are a crap engine with a big turbo bolted onto it, as soon as your out the boost its as flat as a pancake.
I know the VR6 is not the fastest engine in the world but if i wanted power i'd go out and buy a celica gt4. Its the noise that really does it for me, that V6 roar is utterly addictive and its in a corrado which i have loved ever since i was young Very Happy
R32 is an amazing engine (260bhp though), i did actually have one to put in but the cost of converting it got a bit steep after i got ripped off, glad i rebuilt the VR6 though, 35mpg from a 2.9 makes me happy!

Anyway enough of the dub love, back to swift love lol. Well i spoke to boggys today and apparently he has the full kit on the shelf ready to go for £550+vat with zx9r carbs. Little steep for my liking! I've been told about a company that can make me the plates for the carbs and i do cad for a living so should be able to get some drawings done for them, may be a case of getting hold of an old inlet and chopping it and getting my mate to weld it all together.

Thanks for all your help everyone, i know its tiring when you get a newbie coming along asking the same questions you've answered a million times!

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Post  STEVEGTI 12/11/10, 09:07 pm

hahaha vws are poo in general if it aint jap its crap the 1.8t is a brilliant engine its no g13b but it aint bad way better than a vr all day my mates 1.8t has 303bhp and hits full boost at 2500rpm and pulls all the way to 7800rpm no worries. proper managment is a must. if you ask me any modified engine without a aftermarket ecu is pretty pointless i cant stress that enough and with carbs on a swift i cant see it ever running well on a stock ecu especially a mk1 ecu wich i dont think you can even get a get a chip for. get a mk2 head ecu and engine loom before you do anything like that

or turbo it for £1000 and have 180bhp in a swift that will start and drive like a normal car all day every day Smile.

you say your not about numbers but you want the most power that you can get turbo it and have more power and tourqe than you will ever make n/a simples

steve

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Post  swiftkid 12/11/10, 10:53 pm

No offence steve but i really don't agree with your views on if its not jap its crap, some of my mates have jap cars and hate vws and vice versa and i think its a bit ridiculous really, i like both. I'm really not a fan of the 1.8t engine but i'll leave that for another forum.

I understand your comments about putting it on aftermarket management but its alot of money. For the future i might consider turboing the swift but at the moment all i want to do is get it stripped, get it more power and have some fun on the track. I don't even know if i will like it, i'm not about figures but what i meant is i don't want to stick a set of carbs on then realise that if i had bought a different type i could have better power curve and more bhp if you get me.

I might be sounding really tight and not logical but as i've said this is intended to be a cheap bit of fun.

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Post  garndi 13/11/10, 08:09 pm

Hey Mate,

If your not interested in numbers and want a cheap bit of fun then why not use the standard MK1 setup?, it has a usable power curve. Not saying don't go carbs, they will sound kewl/look good, but Carbs will be a lot of effort/time to setup for little HP gain. Just work out how much its going to cost and see if its worth the HP increase. Just remember that the engine is only 1.3 thats already setup well and making good power!.

As Stav suggested Turbo.
The best way to get big jump in HP ***usable power*** is using a WRX Turbo. On a completely standard engine =185HP using a Turbo Chip (its amazing just how well the standard 10:1 CR engine runs with a Turbo!).

For you this would require a MK2/MK3 Head, Loom, Plenum, ECU, Dizzy, injectors (basically a complete top end). So would cost money... But £ / HP its the best option. You would also not have to strip you Swift out either lol.

"if i wanted power i'd go out and buy a celica gt4"

No offence but you would be buying an underpowered boat lol.

As for VW's I own a 6n2 Polo and Golf MK4 GTi and highly rate them, easy to work on!. but the vr6 is a bit of a dog

Cheers
Andy
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Post  STEVEGTI 13/11/10, 09:09 pm

niether of your vws work properly though andy you forgot that bit Laughing


steve


celicas are slow my mates evo 5 is running 350bhp and he only just pulls away from me after 115mph really over rated cars dont get me wrong still like em power out of corners is immense and comfort aint too bad lol

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Post  garndi 13/11/10, 09:43 pm

STEVEGTI2 wrote:niether of your vws work properly though andy you forgot that bit Laughing

Yeah they do... Spent all day fixing the Golf, that's why I said easy to work on!.

Stav Mate, your Swift is slow!, leaks oil like a sieve + you would be chopped by an EVO because you have boost creep and can not rev over 5500RPM...... ahahahahahahaha.

And now you have to use a HP killer sound stopper exhaust pipe thing lol.


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Post  Nitro 13/11/10, 09:54 pm

I have carbs on my other swift, the extra power was noticeable. it seems to need tuning every winter then summer is that normal?.





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Post  swiftopedo 13/11/10, 10:11 pm

Hi guys i am new here!
may i have a question for this mod?
What you have to do with the MAF? i was thinking something crazy!!!!
to remap the map of a gsxr lol!
Miniswift very nice carbon!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post  Nitro 13/11/10, 10:14 pm

why do you need a maf with carbs? or did i just miss something
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Post  dominator 14/11/10, 04:25 pm

STEVEGTI2 wrote:with carbs on a swift i cant see it ever running well on a stock ecu especially a mk1 ecu wich i dont think you can even get a get a chip for.
steve
only need the ecu for fuel cut incase of accident with a mk1 dizzy/carbs setup mate

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Post  swiftopedo 14/11/10, 06:12 pm

i think it's very importand to use something to read the air if you wont to use the standar ecu or a reprogramming ecu!
sorry for my english!!!!!

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Post  dominator 15/11/10, 08:44 pm

DONT NEED ECU FOR CARBS!!!! Rolling Eyes

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Post  STEVEGTI 15/11/10, 09:44 pm

this is true see my mind is progamed to injection aswell proper. carbs is suck spray and pray lol!


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Post  Miniswift 15/11/10, 10:38 pm

Hi,

If you have Webers, you will need to re calibrate very often.
On the other hand, if you have R1 carbs and like of them. You will be OK by doing it once and forget.
For bike carbs, you will be ok to run without ECU as well as cut off switch. As long as you have a low pressure fuel pump. Carbs run with 3-4psi not 1.5bar.
You will not need MAF or TPS with carbs but R1 carbs run with TPS in their std form. I think this is for ignition timing more than anything.

Whatever you do, you will more than likely to end up spending more than £1k.
For me, it was cheaper but I haven't started my engine as yet.. well for 6 years. But once I'm ready to start my engine, I will need to get it run on dyno. I think my R1 carbs were £85 off ebay(sold TPS for £35), cylinder head mod(built in inlet @ 45 degrees with P+P, skimmed head) £200. Suzuki Sports camshafts £150, So total of £400 but I think I might end up with £250-400 rolling road setup. I might even have to mod my mk1 dizzy or get my mk2 dizzy modded to suit £180. So it will be £1k. I hope I will get 135-140Bhp enf of the day in 650Kg Mini.
Whatever I do, I will get over 200Bhp/ton for sure!

Cheers
Atchi

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